Answers
Jul 21, 2006 - 05:06 PM
hey, dustPuppy...it's me again.
OK...here's my "qualified" opinion. Safari sucks. It sucks, it sucks, it sucks...in short, it sucks. If you're getting the impression that I think Safari sucks, you're right.
It's too bad that it's the installed and therefore default browser for the Mac OS. Firefox is much better and hopefully most people will download it as the first thing they do when buying a new Mac.
Some of the limitations of Safari:
No support for RichText Editing. In other words, if you're doing a content management system that allows the person entering text to make some pieces bold, or italic or blue, they will not be able to do it from Safari.
Poor implementations of CSS. It's supposed to be standards based to CSS 2.0, but it rarely behaves like it. Layout with CSS is off in Safari.
Buttons. OK, they're pretty cool on the Mac, but every button you configure in your design will look like the Mac button regardless of any CSS you have applied to it.
.NET controls - especially third party controls like the Infragistics Suite, may or may not render properly in Safari. Most of these companies do not support Safari and only marginally support Mac Firefox.
I went out an bought a Mac Mini which gives me the ability to test my designs on the Mac. I worry about it working right and looking good in Mac Firefox, and then do what I can to make it respectable in Safari.
If you're looking to develop ON the Mac platform I can't be of much help there...I know there is no .NET development environment currently written for the Mac, but other languages (Ruby, PHP, etc) are available for the Mac.
Hope this helps,
Ric
OK...here's my "qualified" opinion. Safari sucks. It sucks, it sucks, it sucks...in short, it sucks. If you're getting the impression that I think Safari sucks, you're right.
It's too bad that it's the installed and therefore default browser for the Mac OS. Firefox is much better and hopefully most people will download it as the first thing they do when buying a new Mac.
Some of the limitations of Safari:
No support for RichText Editing. In other words, if you're doing a content management system that allows the person entering text to make some pieces bold, or italic or blue, they will not be able to do it from Safari.
Poor implementations of CSS. It's supposed to be standards based to CSS 2.0, but it rarely behaves like it. Layout with CSS is off in Safari.
Buttons. OK, they're pretty cool on the Mac, but every button you configure in your design will look like the Mac button regardless of any CSS you have applied to it.
.NET controls - especially third party controls like the Infragistics Suite, may or may not render properly in Safari. Most of these companies do not support Safari and only marginally support Mac Firefox.
I went out an bought a Mac Mini which gives me the ability to test my designs on the Mac. I worry about it working right and looking good in Mac Firefox, and then do what I can to make it respectable in Safari.
If you're looking to develop ON the Mac platform I can't be of much help there...I know there is no .NET development environment currently written for the Mac, but other languages (Ruby, PHP, etc) are available for the Mac.
Hope this helps,
Ric
Jul 24, 2006 - 06:49 AM
you are saying internet explorer is more css standards compliants than safari? I find I need to hack more for ie than safari!
Explorer on Mac is dead. Its not being developed anymore and not many users use it, especially on OSX. Its mainly safari, then firefox, but great majority is on safari. So however you feel about it, if you want mac users to be able to use your site, you must develop for it.
Explorer on Mac is dead. Its not being developed anymore and not many users use it, especially on OSX. Its mainly safari, then firefox, but great majority is on safari. So however you feel about it, if you want mac users to be able to use your site, you must develop for it.
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:12 AM
dascope,
I did not say that IE is more standards compliant than Safari. What I did say is everything you mentioned above - with the exception of the point you raised on IE Mac being dead, which it is.
Safari is the installed browser on OSX so unless the Mac user downloads Firefox or another browser, they're going to be using Safari.
I just spent a week in Chicago for an Ajax training class...the instructors were all using Macs, and all three of them said the exact same thing I did about Safari, and all three of them used Firefox as their browser because of the limitations of Safari.
I will never develop "for" Safari as my primary compatible browser. That would be like telling the engineers at Ferrari that they can only develop for people that drive a Yugo. I will, however, develop "around" it and make reasonable adjustments if they will improve the experience for Safari users.
One thing I want to make very clear...Macs are great machines. This is not a comment on Macs as a platform, nor am I looking to dredge up that tired Mac v. PC conversation. People should be able to choose the computer that will work best for the job they need to perform.
I did not say that IE is more standards compliant than Safari. What I did say is everything you mentioned above - with the exception of the point you raised on IE Mac being dead, which it is.
Safari is the installed browser on OSX so unless the Mac user downloads Firefox or another browser, they're going to be using Safari.
I just spent a week in Chicago for an Ajax training class...the instructors were all using Macs, and all three of them said the exact same thing I did about Safari, and all three of them used Firefox as their browser because of the limitations of Safari.
I will never develop "for" Safari as my primary compatible browser. That would be like telling the engineers at Ferrari that they can only develop for people that drive a Yugo. I will, however, develop "around" it and make reasonable adjustments if they will improve the experience for Safari users.
One thing I want to make very clear...Macs are great machines. This is not a comment on Macs as a platform, nor am I looking to dredge up that tired Mac v. PC conversation. People should be able to choose the computer that will work best for the job they need to perform.
Jul 24, 2006 - 03:10 PM
If you want to develop for mac you must develop for safari. Two prominent examples illustrate its possible even at the highest level of AJAX:
gmail and google calendar..but in your defence, both came out with a delay for safari.
I am stuck in an AJAX project myself right now, and gues what, we've ditched safari for now. for "normal websites however there is NO EXCUSE not to build for safari in my opinion apart from lack of a testing environment, lack of budget or lack of effort.
gmail and google calendar..but in your defence, both came out with a delay for safari.
I am stuck in an AJAX project myself right now, and gues what, we've ditched safari for now. for "normal websites however there is NO EXCUSE not to build for safari in my opinion apart from lack of a testing environment, lack of budget or lack of effort.
Jul 24, 2006 - 10:55 PM
Thanks Ric and dascope, I think I get the picture.
Here's the points...
Here's the points...
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